» Bridleway around Ffos Las

Thought this deserved a thread of its own



Sorry it's not a great pic, but it'll do til I can find a better one.

Elinor, the bridleway from Heol Rehoboth is shown at the bottom of the pic on the right hand side, as Br 57/21, although it's fenced off just outside of the bit shown on the map currently. On the bottom left, you can see Br 57/15 coming out behind the chemist in Trimsaran.

Timescale for opening the bridleway, from Gary Carlsen @ Carmarthenshire Council (my comments and updates in red):

I have to present a report to my Exec Board Member recommending that an order be made for the creation of the bridleway and diversion of the footpath network. I am not sure at present if I will be able to write that report by the 9th July. If not, then the next meeting will be on the 18th September. (Yes Gary did get the report written)

If and when approved (yes it was approved on 23rd July! see here) I then have to draft the order (about a week)(have just emailed Gary 3rd Aug to see if he's done this yet an his reply is: I haven't drafted the order yet, and won't get down to it until after I return from A/L in September. I'm planning to get it drafted and stamped by legal by December, so probably advertised in January.), have it 'stamped' by our legal section (2-3 weeks), and then advertised by notice in the local press and send out notices to all the statutory consultees. If after 4-6 weeks from that initial consultation date I receive no objections I can confirm the order (4 weeks).

If objections are received I have to send the order to WAG for their attention. They may decide to hold a Public Inquiry (2010-11) where an appointed inspector will make a decision based on the two sides of the argument from CCC and the objectors.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific in the timescale, but I have given a fair indication, but forgot to mention I will be taking 3 weeks annual leave between July-Aug
Regtards,

This post has been edited by LucyO on Aug 3 2009, 12:34 PM

Not good news is it... I think that we'd be very luckly if there were no objections to a diversion order... Some of the Statutory Consultees have a habit of objecting to any order that diverts an existing footpath or right of way...

Usually the diversion or 'stopping up' of the existing route is only allowed when the new route had been opened.

The only way the council would be allowed to close the routes is if a Temporary Order has been made closing the routes. These orders usually only run for 6 months, but can be extended if the council consult with the Assembly who can then grant the extention (which they usually do).

If you wanted to look into it more I'd ask the council for a copy of the order closing the routes.. you might find that the order closing them has expired..

lol, so would that mean the footpaths still exist and we could wander along them with our dogs (on leads of course) on racedays and any other time we like??

That might encourage Ffos Las to grant us the permissive access to the new bridleway!

I suspect that the council made a temporary order closing the routes which has expired.. if it has, legally you'd have every right to wander in there on race days!!

Ffos Las will prob be unaware its expired too as they'll of asked Carms CC to put the order in place! Would be worth looking into I think!

This was the covering letter enclosing the plan (plan shown at the start of this thread):



It does say there that the suspension order has expired???

Once the coalmining suspension order expired the rights of way were automatcically re-instated. Neither Ffos Las or the council could extend this order as it was specifically for the purpuse of mining.

Legally Ffos Llas or the council would have to apply for another order to keep them closed after this.

The diversion Order (under section 247) is a totally separate order, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the 'temporary' closure of the rights of way, under the provisions of the 247 order the existing footpaths (now re-instated as the mining order has expired) cannot be diverted until the alternative route/diversion has been completed.

I'd def make sure you email the council and ask if there is a temporary prohibition order in force for the routes. Ask to see them, lots of councils make them and then forget about them, its probably expired.

Hmmmm, interesting!!

I feel there'll be plenty to discuss at the next Council meeting...

Details on what Section 257 is about here:
http://www.planning-inspectorate.gov.uk/pi...h_orders_10.htm

An interesting point is raised here:
http://birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?C...631&EXPAND=5619

And furthermore here:
http://www.planning-inspectorate.gov.uk/pi...s_of_way_09.doc

Just to clarify Lucy - are the new bridleways and footpaths completed?? If they are there shouldn't be anything stopping Carms CC making a Temporary Order diverting the rights of way, these Temporary Orders can usually be made in 3 weeks as the public don't usually have any right to object to them.

Its quite common for councils to make temporary orders to cover them until a permanent order can be drafted etc.

I'd email CCC and see if there's any reason why they can't make a temporary diversion order. I'd be happy to take a look at it before you send it.

That's an interesting idea.... as far as I'm aware and can see, the new bridleway is fully in place, apart from the two bridges referred to in this topic:
http://carmsriders.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=17

They've put a planning application in for the bridges which was approved on 14th May, details here:
http://www.ukplanning.com/carmarthenshire/...2&action=Search

I think Karen said they were either working on the bridges currently, or just about to start, and I can't imagine they'd take too long, maybe a month?

Maybe a temporary diversion order would be the way forward then? I'll ask Karen to have a read through this thread as she knows a lot more about it than me, but thanks for the suggestion! A ray of hope, lol!!

Looks like the Council have got wind of this and have now issued a Traffic Regulation Order banning walkers and riders from the site for 6 months or so:

Taken from the classifieds on www.thisissouthwales.co.uk:

NOTICES » Public Notices
PUBLIC NOTICE HIGHWAYS The County of Carmarthenshire (Registered Public Footpaths and Bridleways at Trimsaran, Llanelli) Temporary Prohibition of Pedestrian Traffic Order 2009 NOTICE is hereby given that the Carmarthenshire County Council intend, not less than seven days from the date of this Notice, to make an Order the effect of which will be:

1. To prohibit any pedestrians from proceeding along:

(a) that entire length of footpath Number 57/13 from a point adjacent to the Class II Road B4317 north of Trimsaran which then continues across Ffos Las racecourse in a north easterly direction to a point where it rejoins the Class II Road B4317 on the western edge of Carway village, a distance of approximately 1,500 metres. The Alternative Route for north east bound pedestrian traffic from a point south west of the closure will be to proceed in a general northerly and then north easterly direction along the Class II Road B4317 to return to the terminus of the footpath at a point where it rejoins the said B4317 at the western edge of Carway village, a distance of approximately 1,600 metres. Vice Versa for south west bound pedestrian traffic.

(b) (i) the entire length of footpath Number 57/14 , that is, from its junction with footpath Number 57/13 to its junction with Footpaths Numbered 57/16 and 30/123,
(ii) the entire length of footpath Number 57/16, that is, from its junction with footpaths Numbered 57/14 and 30/123 to its junction with Bridleway Numbered 57/15; and
(iii) the entire length of footpath Number 57/20, that is, from its junction with Bridleway Number 57/15 to its junction with an unclassified county road south of Cefnbryn which said footpaths have a total length of approximately 2,300 metres. The Alternative Route for south east bound pedestrian traffic will be to proceed along the Class II Road B4317 from a point adjacent to its junction with Footpath Number 57/13 in a southerly direction to its junction with the Class II Road B4308. Turn left at this junction and continue along the B4308 in a south easterly direction to its junction with the unclassified road leading to Five Roads. Turn left again at this junction and travel in a generally easterly direction along the unclassified road to return to the southern terminus of footpath Number 57/20. Vice versa for north west bound pedestrian traffic.

(c ) (i) the entire length of footpath Number 57/17, that is, from its junction with Bridleway Number 57/15 in a northerly direction to its junction with footpath Number 57/14,
(ii) the entire length of footpath Number 30/123, that is, from its junction with footpaths numbered 57/14 and 57/16 in a north easterly direction to its junction with Bridleway Number 30/122, and
(iii) part of footpath number 57/18 from its junction with Bridleway 57/15 for a short distance in a southerly direction to its junction with footpath number 57/24.
(iv) which said footpaths have a total length of approximately 1,520 metres. The Alternative Route for north east bound pedestrian traffic from a point south of the closure of that part of footpath number 57/18 will be to proceed in a south westerly direction along the remainder of that path to its junction with the Class II Road B4308. Turn right onto the B4308 and continue in a northerly direction to its junction with the Class II Road B4317 in the village of Trimsaran. Turn right at this junction and travel along the B4317 in a northerly and then general north easterly direction to Capel Bethel at Carway so as to return to a point opposite the terminus of Bridleway 30/122. Vice versa for south bound pedestrian traffic. Pedestrian traffic wishing to proceed in a south easterly direction from a point south of the closure of that part of footpath number 57/18 may on returning to the junction with the Class II Road B4308 follow the relevant part of the alternative route described in paragraph (b) above.

(d) part of footpath number 57/22 from its junction with footpath numbered 57/24 in a general north easterly direction to its junction with Bridleway number 57/21, a distance of approximately 450 metres. The Alternative Route for south east bound pedestrian traffic from a point west of the closure of footpath number 57/22 will be to proceed in a south westerly direction along the remainder of the said footpath to its junction with Class II Road B4308. Turn left at this junction and continue along the B4308 in a south easterly direction for approximately 600 metres to its junction with the unclassified road leading to Five Roads. Turn left again at this junction and travel in a generally easterly direction along the unclassified road to return to the southern terminus of Bridleway Number 57/21. Vice versa for north bound pedestrian traffic.

2. To prohibit any pedestrians or person on horseback from proceeding along:

(a) (i) the entire length of Bridleway Number 57/15, that is, from its junction with the Class II Road B4317 in a general easterly direction to its junction with footpaths Numbered 57/16 and 57/20 and continuing thereafter for a distance of 600 metres or thereabouts in a north easterly direction ,
(ii) the entire length of Bridleway Number 36/33, that is, from its junction with Bridleway numbered 57/15 in a north easterly and then north westerly direction to its junction with Bridleway Number 30/122, and
(iii) the entire length of Bridleway Number 30/122, that is, from its junction with Bridleway 36/33 for a short distance in a northerly direction to its junction with the Class II Road B4317 opposite Capel Bethel at Carway. which said bridleways have a total length of approximately 2,700 metres. The Alternative Route for north east bound pedestrian and equestrian traffic from a point south west of the closure will be to proceed in a general northerly and then north easterly direction along the Class II Road B4317 to Carway. On arrival continue to Capel Bethel so as to return to a point opposite the terminus of Bridleway 30/122. Vice Versa for south west bound pedestrian and equestrian traffic.

(b) the entire length of Bridleway Number 57/21, that is, from its junction with the Unclassified Road leading to Five Roads in a northerly direction to its junction with footpath Number 57/22 and thereafter continuing in a general easterly and then north westerly direction to its junction with Bridleway Number 57/15, a distance of approximately 800 metres. The Alternative Route for north bound pedestrian and equestrian traffic form a point south of the closure will be to proceed in a westerly direction along the unclassified road to its junction with the Class II Road B4308. Turn right at the junction and travel in a north westerly direction along the B4308 to its junction with the Class II Road B4317 in the village of Trimsaran. Turn right again at this junction and continue along the B4317 to the village of Carway. On arrival proceed to Capel Bethel being opposite the terminus of Bridleway Number 30/122.


The proposed Order will continue in force until the of improving/construction works which are being undertaken along the lengths of the footpaths/bridleways been completed. It is intended that the works will be completed within six months.

DATED the 22nd day of July 2009. Mark James, Chief Executive, County Hall, Carmarthen Reference: HD/HTTR-872 Direct Line: (01267) 224045 e-mail address: hldavies@sirgar.gov.uk
Published: 23/07/2009

Updated in post 2

Updated again Post 2

Any news on when this will be open?